Thursday, September 15, 2011

A possible explanation?

Hi ladies!  Things are moving along over here.  Only three more BCPs left!  I drew a big circle around the last one that I'm supposed to take so I can use it as a countdown.  I smile when I look at it each morning.

I just got off the phone with the IVF nurse after scheduling our appointment with the embryologist (for Monday afternoon) and giving my credit card number for THE payment.  (I'd pay by check but why not get the cash back on my Discover card? :) )

We also discussed the results of my DH's complete SA from Monday.

Their recommendation?

ICSI.

That's right.  My DH.  The one with "super sperm."  The one who Dr. Smiles told us had provided enough highly motile "happy" sperm during our first four IUIs for 20 women.  They're recommending ICSI.

The reason?  His total numbers, motility and density were good.  But, his morphology was below normal.  As was his HOST (hypoosmotic swelling test).

I know morphology can fluctuate, so it's possible something has changed over the past three years or so.  But, it's the HOST that I'd never heard before.  No one had tested that before for him but it appears to be a measurement that doesn't fluctuation with time for an individual. And, reading about it, it seems that a poor HOST score is an indication of DNA problems with the individual sperm that fail the test.  According to my research (because I've always wanted to read the Journal of Andrology), a low HOST score can lead to failure in natural TTC, IUI and even "normal" IVF.  Not because of low fertilization rates.  But, because of implantation failure.  In one study, the fertilization rate, # embryos transferred and embryo morphology were all the same between those with high and low HOST scores by normal IVF.  BUT, the pregnancy rate for those with high HOST scores was 50% while that for those with low HOST scores was 0 %.  That's a zero, folks.  The authors propose that there is some sort of toxicity involved -- possibly of the other sperm around the embryo.  One article even said that it was proposed that having unprotected sex before or after an IUI if you have this sort of issue could hamper the pregnancy rate.  (I don't know about your clinics, but both of mine were always telling us to have sex a couple of times after the IUI "just in case" we missed the ovulation window.)  They say that ICSI can alleviate those issues if only sperm that do not fail the test are chosen. 

Is it an explanation?  Could this be why this hasn't been working for us?

Could I be grasping at straws?  Yes.  But, all you "unexplained" ladies out there understand the excitement of a possible reason.  Even more so, a reason with a treatment.  Yes, there are inherent issues and risks (and costs) involved with ICSI.  Yes, it might still make it less likely to work.

But, this is giving me renewed hope that it's possible that this could work.  That doing IVF is actually a useful treatment and not just me throwing money at a problem.

33 comments:

  1. I hope this is the answer for you. And ps- thanks for all of your support, you are one of the good friends I've made that I'd LOVE to stay in touch with no matter what. I hear you on the just wanting an answer.

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  2. I hope it's the answer, too. And congrats on 3 more BCPs left; I took my last one on Monday (YAY!). I'll be cheering for you! :)

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  3. Wow, that's really interesting. I wonder if that was our problem, too. DH's #s were always great, but his morph was low. I don't think they tested the HOST. Something to consider if we have to go back to the RE (which I suspect we will).

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  4. A possible explanation...fan-fricken-tastic =) IMO once your paying out the you-know-what for IVF you might as well buy the ICSI insurance plan even if there aren't any sperm issues. It sounds like you guys are on the best path possible. So excited for the train to start rollin!!!

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  5. Wow, that's so interesting. My DH had the detailed analysis done too, and came up with the same results..great in everything but morphology so we're doing ICSI too.

    The doc didn't mention anything about HOST though. Hopefully this can provide some answers and is an easy fix with ICSI!

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  6. Hmmm, super interesting! Morph has always been low for us too- and the only time I've ever gotten pregnant was with ICSI. I would be running out and having this test done if we weren't already on track for another round of IVF with ICSI. I hope this makes all the difference for you!

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  7. Very interesting! I can completely understand that feeling of renewed hope because you are taking steps to assist with what could be the problem. I hope this is it!

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  8. Wow, interesting. Isn't it crazy what they can come up with if they just spend a little time researching it!?!? I just found on someone else's blog that low vitamin D is a big factor relating to infertility - UM, yeah. When we were TTC I wasn't taking Vit D supps because it didn't occur to me that while slathering on SPF and wearing long sleeves and floppy hats I was inhibiting my fertility.

    siiiigh. I hope hope hope this is your answer!

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  9. How great to have more potentially useful information! And seriously, all the cool kids to ICSI. Okay, maybe not, but we did ICSI. And it worked! So it has worked at least a couple times before (Jay at the2weekwait.blogspot.com did it too), so why not go for what might make a difference? Excited for you!

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  10. I am so glad you may have found a reason that has the potential to be solved! Best of luck to you!

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  11. That is really interesting. How awesome is it to have a potential reason with a solution! I'm so happy that your clinic checked this!

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  12. I'm not sure if we had the HOST test or not, but the rest is exactly what happened with us. We were told my husband was a champ and was always rated as a 3+ (1-4, 4=best). Then when moving to IVF were told we needed ICSI. I also wonder if this was the issue all along...

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  13. Hope this answers your questions as well as 'solves' your issues! Sorry I haven't been around much but you're always in my thoughts and I'm pulling for you with everything in me!!

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  14. I've always wondered if, despite all of my "issues," morphology was at the bottom of us never getting pregnant. While we were able to get Joey's numbers and motility up with IUIs, his morph was always low. I hope ICSI will definitely help with that, and I'm so glad your clinic recommended it.

    I hope this is it, Rebecca. You have no idea how hard I'm rooting for you.

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  15. I don't like hearing that kind of news (low HOST), but you've taught me something today and it is something that I feel like I should ask to be tested next time T does a SA (if we decide to jump back on the TTC roller coaster). I'm excited right along with you to take that last BCP, and can't tell you enough how much I want this to be it! Oh and thank you so much for leaving a message on my blog. You're always so wonderful about that, but I still can't believe it after 47 views I only received one review. Oh well I guess I'm still working up my numbers since moving blogs again.

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  16. Wow, this is fascinating! I've never heard of this HOST thing - always learning new stuff. But my clinic only does IVF with ICSI - they believe that it's unethical to not do it with everyone, so they don't charge extra for it - it's incorporated in their price, which is similar to other clinics without ICSI. So I guess they wouldn't need to do the HOST test.

    I definitely understand what it's like to be unexplained and suddenly get a diagnosis. Finally, something to TREAT! I'm so happy for you!

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  17. I'm so glad you finally got a good explanation of things, & more importantly, a good plan! We did ICSI because of the same reason. I'm praying so hard with everything I have that this is it for you!!

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  18. i hope this is the answer and well done to your clinic for covering all bases...so...are we looking at a home run here?! i think so!

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  19. Wow - what a great researcher you are! I've never heard of HOST before either. Crossing my fingers and saying a prayer for you and hubby!

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  20. I'm so glad that you have a possible cause for your IF issues! And a huge Thank You for he sock recommendation! That site is pretty amazing. Ankle Toe Socks? Yes please!

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  21. So are they supposed to test each sperm for this before ICSI? Does your clinic do this? I've never heard of it either (we are also MF). Thanks for the very interesting post!

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  22. Fascinating, And useful. I hope that this sorts things out for you -- we did icsi becUse of low morph and never thought a thing about it. And if it's what was needed, than I'm all ok with it.
    Yay for no more bcps!

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  23. I hope this is your solution! Good luck!!!

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  24. Grasping at straws is all we have! Really interesting and how I hope this is a reason!

    Never heard of HOST. Something new is always exciting. I am so glad you are feeling hopeful!

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  25. Wow, I've never heard of that before either! I hope they can work around it and ICSI does the trick for you guys!

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  26. Thanks for posting this information. Definitely something to talk to my Dr. about, since I think we have implantation problems . . .

    I really hope the ICSI works for you!

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  27. I know how you feel to have an answer that has a potential treatment... I was so relieved and it helped with my optimism going into IVF. I really hope that this is the answer for you... you deserve all the happiness in the world. Modern science can be so great :) Love always xoxo

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  28. I have NEVER heard about this! I learned something new today! And I seriously hope that this is the answer! Appendages crossed!

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  29. I completely understand. A reason, especially a treatable, is so much more reassuring than unexplained. Best of luck, I hope this cycle is it.

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  30. Wow! I've never heard of HOST either.

    Crossing my fingers for a fantastic cycle!

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  31. Oh wow! That's very interesting! I know the science geek in you is dissecting each and every probability and possibility that this has been the issue all along. :) :) Like many of the other girls, I've never heard of HOST but I am hoping that this is the answer to your prayers.

    ((hugs))

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  32. wow, i've never heard of HOST either. Very interesting, I'm hoping that this was the issue and IVF w/ ICSI is just the thing.

    How does the missed m/c conceived naturally fit in w/ this new information? That this is a new issue?

    Anyways, rooting so, so hard for you!! Good luck!

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  33. Very interesting information. I'm going to write this down to ask my clinic on Monday (although it won't be needed for this FET, nor the next IVF cycle as they have already said it would be ICSI). But just in case..for the future, you know.

    Good luck for this cycle! I hope ICSI does it for you.

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